Naval History Forums

You're basically talking about a large scale kamikaze mission. It simply wasn't possible for KM destroyers to conduct fleet operations at that distance in winter weather (nor always RN DDs either, and in many cases they were simply left behind). KM DDs had very short range (2-3000nm at 19 knots vers...

the problem with your scenario srgt Rock is that the larger the German task force is the lager the risk of being sighted by the enemy. also the demands of fuel would be very large. that is why I suggested only TP and GZ acting as an homogeneous pair.[/quote] Agreed, but this is planned as an all out...

I would not plan to be able to avoid an air attack as I break out. I would combine the Surface Strike Task Force with the Carrier Task Force to provide the greatest possible AA barrage. Both proposals for the Indomitable air strike have a similar number of aircraft breaking through to make their att...

As I stated in the proposal for Operation Rapier, this is intended as an all out effort by the KM to disrupt the British convoy routes. Emden is the longest range of all the German CLs. She has a proven power plant. Emden has been world tours during the 30s. She would hold up as well as any of the o...

-->How do they know that some Fulmars are bomb armed and some not? You stated that in your post. If you mean how do the CAP fighters, by location in the sky. Escorting fighters would be at a higher altitude than the bomb armed Fulmars. The German fighter director would not know what type of aircraf...

Lets assume that Indomitable finds GZ and GZ manages to find Indomitable, more or less at the same time some where near Iceland at a range of ~150 nm. Weather permitting, the RN would launch an immediate strike, say 18 (of 24) Albacores armed with 2 x 500lb bombs escorted by 9 (of 12)Fulmars 6 of w...

I think Graf Zeppelin role wouldnt be direct attacks to destroy enemy warships but to give support to Tirpitz for attack on enemy supply lines, convoys. just like Bismarck role was not to attack enemy battleships unless absolutely neccesary. It is the Royal Navy that has to incercept the Germans an...

According to Hugh Popham in Sea Flight, no Indomitable aircraft transferred to any other carriers.

Grant Indomitable is still in home waters.

GZ has AW radar but remove ASV radar from any Fi 167s.

As far as Illustrious and Formidable, what air groups would they embark?

Radar development in Germany in the late 30s was a KM initiative. Historically, the only radars the Germans had during the battle of Britain were the KM radars. For our debate, GZ has a combination of Seetakt for longer range detection and FuMG 40 for more accurate altitude and bearing information. ...

German AW radar Freya developed in 1938. FuMG 39 units were being delivered in 1940. For air search The German had the Fi 167 which could out perform even the Swordfish in slow speed handling. As stated, minimal CAP with additional fighters on deck ready to launch. As Battle Group commander, I would...

GZ will be trying to carry out flight operations in Northern waters noted their extremely bad weather, and in late November, almost perpetual darkness. These are conditions which favour surface raiders but which make flight operations extremely difficult (almost impossible, actually) in the absence...

I think the posts relating the relative merits of Fulmar and 109T gives the energy availability to the 109T so German dogfight tactics will be climbing and diving and generally give them the ability to achieve the all important higher altitude most of the time. I will also grant that the AW radar ca...

The RN could and did refuel at sea in mid 1941: http://www.historicalrfa.org/rfa-black-ranger It was RFA Black Ranger that supported Tovey. Thank you for that information. I have found that as you research more of the details of WW II, you learn that more was being done sooner than is commonly stat...

...The battle plan would have the Northern Battle top off fuel in the Artic Ocean and then breaking through the ICELAND-FAROES gap in GOOD WEATHER. (In order to best utilize thier air assets) .... That virtually guarantees the British pick them up before they get far from Norway. Given how fragil c...

RN counter forces: Northern Group (Scapa Flow): Victorious (20 Albacores, 15 Fulmars, + spares) Furious (9 Albacores, 9 Swordfish, 6 Fulmars, 4 Sea Hurricanes + spares) KGV POW Several Cruisers DD flotilla Atlantic Group (Gibraltar): Ark Royal (36 Swordfish, 18 Fulmars) Renown Repulse Several Cruis...