Naval History Forums

Hi All Hi Antonio, the morning action was not mentioned in the CM because the cruisers did what they were supposed to do. I'm afraid just repeating over and over your view until people give up is not proof of fact. Your belief that the alteration was intentional to save WW from an imagined threat is...

Hi All Hi Dunmunro thank you, I would have thought it would have been supplied by the Admiralty. Pitcairn Jones does state that the 11.37B is the signal Tovey referenced, the shores of France reference in the view of Pitcairn Jones was specific to the air threat. The difficulty of expunging such a w...

Hi All, May I ask how it would be possible to expunge a signal that had been transmitted via the airwaves so that every ship in the fleet, shore station, and even your enemy has picked up? Wouldnt the very nature of the repossessions of all those written signals on every ship and shore station aroun...

Hi All Hi Antonio, the only idea that there was a missed opportunity to engage in the morning action in the view of those experts in the Roskill files was due to there being no attempt to signal the intent that they were to do so, or any attempt to concentrate on the cruisers using the estimated plo...

Hi All Hi Mr Cadogan, I concur with Alberto it is nice to hear from yourself and from Mr Saxon. In his biography Ellis does state there was confusion due to mist, the Madoc etc, and once settled and zig zagging the confusion was lessened (the reason I'm sure you know that Suffolk PoW and Norfolk had...

Hi All Hi Wadinga, I'm not sure as I don't have B.S.5 but Roskills handwritten note states the signal was the 11.37B. It only says that is what PJ thinks Tovey is referencing in his notes given to Roskill by PJ. It was only in connection with the air threat that the coast of France is referenced. To...

Hi All There are a few pieces of correspondance regarding the towing signal in Roskills papers. He attempts to find the relevant signals and has correspondence with the relevant departments that would hold such records. He receives a letter from Pitcairn-jones in which PJ states that he knows not of...

Hi All Hi Wadinga, I think Alberto has posted the relevant bit of Toveys letter correctly to be totally fair. The CM affair is mentioned as posted and I think in a later letter but only in so far as Tovey seeing nothing would be gained by mentioning critisism of Tovey Pound or Churchill or of WW. Th...

Hi All Hi Wadinga, I'm afraid both when I visited the archives and bought the copy of the Ellis biography I had to sign something to say I would not reproduce them publically ver batim. Hence my paraphrasing of the Ellis biography in the engage or not to engage thread. The 1st part of the Dec 1961 l...

Hi All Hi Alberto, may I ask, is this thread actually to discuss the loss of contact or is it just like the engage or not to engage thread designed to have another crack at Wake-Walker and link it to the morning action etc etc? Forgive my question and my scepticism but every thread started on here s...

Hi All Hi Alberto, thanks for posting this I tried to paraphrase it on the engage or not to engage thread due to worries regarding the copyright limitations/infringements. I think I understand your process here, am I right in thinking that you are trying to link a hypothetical Admiralty critisism an...

Hi All Hi Dunmunro thank you for that much appreciated. Hi Alberto if you look back I think I have answered that question? The reasons for non engagement are explained, if you agree WW thought his role was to shadow and his shadowing tactics were affirmed not criticised then he did what was expected...

Hi All Hi Alberto, if his superiors were happy with his shadowing tactics if they were of the opinion that he never put a foot wrong which part of that do you not consider an answer? Obviously from your list it shows clearly your dislike for Wake Walkers conduct during the operation, and that's your...

Hi All Hi Alberto, please no more games, its getting a little childish now. I'm afraid, a solid argument, a discussion and even conjecture I can cope with, deciding who is allowed to use what references with hypocrisy and trying to create fact from opinion I can't. I accept your opinion but it's not...

Hi All Hi Alberto, well no one reading this can deny that on repeated occasions I've offered the hand of peace and compromise but I'm not sure that is your purpose. I'm not sure there is any real merit in answering your points, as the fact that WW never faced any questioning regarding his role in th...