Naval History Forums

Not if the IZ requirement is to be meant. I was thinking in terms of back fitting these surplus triple 11"C34 turrets to the PBS or just the guns themselves [if that was possible]. Any armor level IZ would have to remain at the PBS level; so no need for the heavier armor on the Twins turrets. ...

Not if the IZ requirement is to be meant. I was thinking in terms of back fitting these surplus triple 11"C34 turrets to the PBS or just the guns themselves [if that was possible]. Any armor level IZ would have to remain at the PBS level; so no need for the heavier armor on the Twins turrets. ...

Dave Saxton wrote:The twin's turrets also had much heavier armour.

Could some of that armor be removed to lighten the overall mass?

It might just be easier to replace the Bow and stern to make the ship more seaworthy- even with the heavier turrets.

If it had been able to retro fit it to the PBS I would have supported it, but making it exclusively for the Twins was a luxury Germany could not afford. The 11C28 was excellent Panzerschiffe weapon. The older 28cm of the Panzerschiffe used a shorter L/3.7 APC shell. The 28cm L/54 of the Scharnhorst...

I've always been of the opinion that the German 11" gun was a great design, was very deadly for its size and IIRC featured the smallest salvo spread of any naval gun in the world. If it had been able to retro fit it to the PBS I would have supported it, but making it exclusively for the Twins ...

Twin 16" turret weight in at 1452 tons and had a barbette diameter of 11m. Bismarck turrets weight in at 1047 tons and the Barbette diameter was about 10 meters. So to make this work you'd have to have the Bismarck built even bigger than it was to compensate the extra mass and width needed for ...

Some one even uncovered a document that insists that the Bismarck is committed to 8 x 14" guns as of April 1935 [15 months before keel laid down] , when no such gun existed or was planed for, and yet 15" and 16" guns were already designed for warships that hadn't even been planned fo...

OK for comparison here would be the Bismarck with 1/3 less armor....essentially a Scharnhorst BB with 6 x 15" guns and an armor base around 14kt much like the Twins. Then the consideration could be extended to building three ships of this class rather than two. Another point from the analysis ...

OK for comparison here would be the Bismarck with 1/3 less armor....essentially a Scharnhorst BB with 6 x 15" guns and an armor base around 14kt much like the Twins. To reduce armor had to reduce width to Twins levels and replace all secondaries with 12 twin 4" flak. Bunkerage is reduced t...

Quick rough and dirty for a Bismarck with +50% armor 19,500 tons ---> 28,800 tons by upping CT Front Turret etc to 500mm and extending main belt to 230m 85% of hull length which has to reach 270m and bulge width to 40m. Net impact max displacement rises to something over 70k and speed on 150,000hp d...

Furbringer argued that only a multi dimensional threat with Uboats and Airpower at the heart ; had any chance of waging a successful naval war against the UK/Allies. Such a multi-dimensional attack was never available to the KM. The closest they ever came to devising one was the Z Plan. So mass U-b...

I've never liked Donitz and people put far to much faith in his concepts etc. Before the war Donitz organised a war-game to show that a large wolf-pack of Uboats could attack and sink a convoy. While this did seem to work a post war-game critique from Captain Furbringer pointed out that these wolf p...

Bey never had chance to even train with his crew before the mission. He never created a chance or took the chance. Scharnhorst and the 5th Z undertook several training exercises (including radar directed shoots) after Bey's arrival and Bey did not participate. Bey took the unmobile Tirpitz as his f...

GHG was not really intended as a tactical sensor , but more of an operational one. According to Friedman BdU could reliably detect an enemy convoy 1/3 of the time but placed it within 120,000nm^2 area to be swept . Failing that the rate of convoy traffic was known to be about 7 per week up until 194...

Bey was a destroyer flotilla leader and was not in command of large capital ships before. In fact he was appointed Scharnhorst skipper the previous month because Kummetz was ill. Kummetz took his staff with him and Bey never had chance to even train with his crew before the mission. He pleaded with ...