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by dunmunro
Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:47 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hi Byron, thanks again for corrections to my wrong understanding, for explanations and additional info on 284 capabilities in 1941. It looks clear that in 1941 284 was able to receive echoes from distant ships (even up to 28.000 yards) but that "usable" ranging was possible only below 18....
by dunmunro
Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:05 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hi Hans, I was going through my hard drive files today and discovered that I have a copy of C.B. 4112(4) Handbook on the use of R.D.F. for Gunnery Purposes, Type 284, 19th July, 1942. This manual covers the original Type 284 as fitted to DoY on 27 May 1941. I have copied the "Ranging Capabilit...
by dunmunro
Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:44 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

It was you, dunmunro, who injected the USN Mk3/4 issue into this discussion. Your motive for doing so remains a mystery. B I certainly did not. See post: by hans zurbriggen » Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:25 pm where he used a USN MK3/4 ranging diagram from a link that you posted. The diagram (Figure 104) cop...
by dunmunro
Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:09 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

It was you, dunmunro, who injected the USN Mk3/4 issue into this discussion. Your motive for doing so remains a mystery. B I certainly did not. See post: by hans zurbriggen » Wed Oct 18, 2023 1:25 pm where he used a USN MK3/4 ranging diagram from a link that you posted. His motive was quite transpa...
by dunmunro
Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:53 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

You are making things up, that don't correspond to the known limitations of Type 284 radar. [ 1 ] I suggest that you refer back to BR2435/CB3213 and CB4182/45 before making such accusations. [ 2 ] Your attempt to divert this discussion by suddenly attacking the US Mk3/FC battleship main battery fir...
by dunmunro
Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:46 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

You are making things up, that don't correspond to the known limitations of Type 284 radar. [ 1 ] I suggest that you refer back to BR2435/CB3213 and CB4182/45 before making such accusations. Type 284 could not range on Salvo splashes at ~ 25k yds. Even Type 284M, with 6 times the transmission power...
by dunmunro
Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:03 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, I feel everything has been well documented. I won't answer anymore to screams (repeated annoying "!"), speculations (sold as truth) and hindsights (" we now know... ") that have nothing to do with what is clearly written in GAR and Enclosures re. actual KGV personnel ...
by dunmunro
Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:01 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

I was unable to locate any mention of a serious performance defect. This is from the Mk3/4 operator's manual: Below 12 degrees of elevation, the ED cannot be relied upon to give accurate position angles. With surface targets we know what the position angle is, and so are not concerned about the ina...
by dunmunro
Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:11 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, this is my two cents opinion (I don't pretend to be right) of what might have happened at (e.g.) 08:50 on KGV 284 panel (based on analysis of Rodney's GAR and salvo plot, KGV GAR and its enclosures and estimated Bismarck course/range rate). Thanks to Byron for providing link I used for e...
by dunmunro
Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:53 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, "we now know that Type 284 could not produce a radar echo from a salvo at that range" This is not what is written in GAR and usage of this aftermath info is supposition. Please let's try to stick to evidences: 284 radar operator reported fall of shot of first salvo as short, th...
by dunmunro
Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:59 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

the 24600 initial range: "...Type 284 reported short..." “ 284M was not capable of detecting fall of shot “ This confirms (even without need for bold, instead posting full sentence from GAR would be more significant), that KGV initially fired upper ladder (at 25.000+ ?) after first salvo ...
by dunmunro
Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:31 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, "No. He could not transmit a range where there was no target!" Instead of underlying personal speculations with pointless screams, I would kindly suggest to post evidences that AFCT was actually fed with a different range than 25.000 yards, (25.000 is range clearly implied by K...
by dunmunro
Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:46 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

(most probably KGV was firing constantly at around 24.000 - 25.000 yards from open fire and BS range was taken on her own fall of shot instead than on Bismarck, while corrections were done based on Rodney fall of shots. Had operator pressed it when getting intermittent "correct" decreasin...
by dunmunro
Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:40 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, according to KGV GAR (https://www.kbismarck.org/forum/download/file.php?id=4164), the 284 operator " continued to look for Bismarck at round about 25.000 yards ". Therefore he could only have transmitted this range pressing his footswitch when getting a range of around 25.000 y...
by dunmunro
Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:04 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2581366

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello Byron, thanks for your data, confirming that 284 (in 1941 version) was considered able to reliably and profitably track enemy at no more than around 20.000 yards (max). The point here is not 284 technical capability to detect (under exceptional / occasional conditions) an echo over 20.000 yar...