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by dunmunro
Wed May 23, 2007 3:29 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

OK, that will be KE/section area. For 25000 yards impacting velocity is 1512 fps for 14" and 1602 fps for the 15" (taken from your post). Shell Velocity KE KE/section area 14" 460 m/s 7783 kN 50 kN/sqr " 15" 480 m/s 9729 kN 55 kN/sqr " The 15" still has a 10% advantage here. 14" 15" range (yds) 21....
by dunmunro
Tue May 22, 2007 11:56 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

Are you aware that the penetration numbers you posted don´t agree with navweapons? I know that the source is arguably, but why would your source be better? Regards I used this program: http://www.panzer-war.com/Naab/NAaB.html to generate the penetration figures. NaaB uses Nathan Okun's armour penet...
by dunmunro
Tue May 22, 2007 7:05 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

I agree, were the Iowa class the slowest? Also the Japanese in constructing the Yamato class were paying no attention to Washington Treaty limits so there would be no compromise on machinery to contain displacement. The KGV's were the fastest of the first batch of nominally, 35K ton, treaty BB's, t...
by dunmunro
Tue May 22, 2007 5:44 am
Forum: Naval Weapons
Topic: KGV Class 14-in Turret Problems
Replies: 115
Views: 37741

one last comment

This article gives a good summary of the final action and some useful data:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-016.htm
by dunmunro
Tue May 22, 2007 4:12 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

If Bismarck had been given KGV's guns, the weight saved would have allowed a 4 shaft machinery layout, yet Bismarck's offensive capabilities would not have suffered, Sorry, one last time, can you please justify why the 14" is at least equal to the 15"? Are you aware of the problems the British turr...
by dunmunro
Tue May 22, 2007 2:04 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

Hood and Bismarck date from different eras and their technology is vastly different. Yes, but the Germans designers stayed with a 3 shaft configuration, which limited the power output against a 4 shaft ship. All in all, a 4 shaft would at most have added 2 knots, at the price of protection. My conc...
by dunmunro
Mon May 21, 2007 9:11 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

Duncan, All the world's navies chose to go with fewer, more powerful guns when they had the chance. The US Navy went from 12 14" guns in the New Mexico class to 8 16" guns in the Colorado class for a good reason. They switched from 12 14" guns on North Carolina and went to 9 16" guns and they never...
by dunmunro
Mon May 21, 2007 7:08 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

BS was not capable of that power, her maximum rating is 138000 as by AOTS. So obvioulsly she couldn´t outrun Hood. Hood was the Formula One of the ships for her days. Hood and Bismarck date from different eras and their technology is vastly different. Vanguard and Bismarck are directly comparable a...
by dunmunro
Mon May 21, 2007 10:26 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

Re: Beam influence in resistance

28.3 knots at 115k SHP for Bismarck To illustrate my previous quoting of D.K. Brown, I offer the followig data. BS is 36 m wide, Hood is 31.7. BS made 28.3 kt at 115000 hp (collected by someone in this thread), Hood made 28.4 kt at 112480 hp (from AOTS Hood). So where is the big disadvantage in bei...
by dunmunro
Mon May 21, 2007 9:09 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

MAy be, but the penetration is given by the KE PER shell, and not per volley. No, penetration is determined by a number of factors, including the energy per square area of the projectiles impact surface. Here's the penetration in inches (KM/RN armour) from Naab: 14" 15" range (yds) 21.2 22.8 10k 17...
by dunmunro
Sun May 20, 2007 10:48 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

revised data: Displacement: Bismarck Std: 41,700 tons KGV Std: 36,700 tons (Dec 1940) Bismarck Full: 50,900 tons KGV Full: 42,200 tons (Raven lists it as 42,076 tons in Dec 1940) Dimensions: Bismarck lenght: 251 mts KGV lenght: 227,1 mts Bismarck beam: 36 mts KGV beam: 31,9 mts Bismarck draft: 10,2 ...
by dunmunro
Sun May 20, 2007 9:21 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

It is still a lighter shell with less velocity. of course, but there is still 10 shells versus 8. 14" = 1590lb 15" = 1764lb 14" MV/Energy 15" MV/Energy (kilonewtons) 2475=20565 2690=26977 (muzzle) 1976=13121 2144=17137 (10k yds) 1774=10575 1919=13729 (15k yds) 1614=8754 1735=11222 (20k yds) 1512=76...
by dunmunro
Sun May 20, 2007 6:20 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

And what about the ammo? The 14" has a 721 kg shell, at a muzzle velocity of 732 m/s. I know wiki is not a definitive source but this article seems correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_14_inch_/_45_mk_VII_naval_gun It does agree perfectly with Marcelo. sorry, what I meant to point out is that t...
by dunmunro
Sun May 20, 2007 6:13 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

You have convinced me that at that time on her displacement then PoW was capable of 29 kts. I have to believe the statement of her commanding officer. This was a brand new ship with a clean bottom, so it makes sense to me. You must be correct that on that day, she could steam with Bismarck. This do...
by dunmunro
Sat May 19, 2007 8:15 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: KG 5 class underestimated?
Replies: 116
Views: 39439

marcelo_malara wrote:And what about the ammo? The 14" has a 721 kg shell, at a muzzle velocity of 732 m/s.
I know wiki is not a definitive source but this article seems correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_14_inch ... _naval_gun