Naval History Forums

Alecsandros ... Leach's report is well known and represents perfectly valid reasoning IMO. But Leach also wrote that he disengaged in order "to consolidate" with Wake-Walker, who was successor to Holland as OIC. Leach did so, and, at that point, all decisions about engagement, disengagemen...

Antonio ..... I have made my best effort to convince you to be more cautious in your interpretation of the psychology underlying events. But, as is attributed to that great Roman, Julius Caesar: "Man believes what we wishes to be true." Best of luck on your venture, upon which you have spe...

The disengagement had already been ordered around 2-3 minutes before, when Leach ordered the hard to port turn, the only order he gave. Capt. Leach did not order a turn to port and after he ordered the disengagement, this is incorrect. Capt. Leach himself explained this, so no possible doubts here,...

..... Antonio, here is an alternative interpretation of events I present for your consideration: [ 1 ] Leach is dutifully following Holland on a sharp closing heading [ 2 ] Just as Holland signals for a second course alteration to open gun arcs, Hood is hit and utterly destroyed. [ 3 ] Leach is forc...

..... With all due respect, my impression is that you have allowed the (cover up conspiracy) theory to take on a degree of substance that is just not supported by the evidence. It is POSSIBLE that you are right, but inference, theory and speculation are not evidence. Should you go forward to publish...

@Dunmunro: from salvo 11 still 3 to 4 shells per salvo (and one hit at salvo 13 !), not a bad shooting at all. Sorry, Duncan, but the actual output of the ship was NOT mentioned by Leach in his final narrative as a cause for the withdrawal, just his FEAR about a possible decrease in the output........

Hello everybody, Sorry, NO speculative view by anybody. " The plot " and 06.13 are a real shame and the reasons, when and by whom those statements have been " invented ", are clear now. I have NOT seen yet anyone of you guys telling me that those 2 above statements are correct. ...

Has anyone looked into the details of PoW's gunnery practices @ Scapa Flow? It strikes me as important that this information be placed on the table before any criticisms of "lack of nerve" can fairly be directed at Captain Leach.

B

Byron wrote - ..... HMS Lion opened fire at Jutland with 20,000 yards on the gun sights, whereas the actual range to Derfflinger was only about 16,000 yards. Was it a conspiracy or just a mistake? Antonio wrote - No one here wants to accuse anybody for their mistakes while doing their duty. Even if...

..... Interesting. Missed that bit on p.22.

B

..... HMS Lion opened fire at Jutland with 20,000 yards on the gun sights, whereas the actual range to Derfflinger was only about 16,000 yards. Was it a conspiracy or just a mistake?

B

"As it was Washington’s radars were unable to spot the fall of shot relative to the targets." ..... This is incorrect according to Washington's action report. Radar spotting of fall of shot was mentioned as having been done in the earlier part of the action for both main battery and second...

Why was USN cruiser gunnery so poor during WWII? Dave, Please define what you mean by "poor". Are you referring to hit percentages? If so, I suspect that the performance of the 6in/47 armed light cruisers probably skewed that figure. USN 6in/47 gunnery doctrine was not terribly concerned ...

Thanks for posting that, Dave - sehr interessant.

Byron

..... If memory serves, my study of the Solomons night fighting turned up data to the effect that FC/FD radar was reputed to be able to spot fall of shot as follows -
5in @ 12,000 yds
6in @ 13,000 yds
8in @ 14,000 yds
14-16in @ 20,000 yds