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by Vic Dale
Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:50 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

In order that this discussion should not be side tracked, I have opened a new thread dedicated to the KTBs and the times used in them. Perhaps now we can get back to discussing Admiral Lutjens' Intentions. I have studied the debriefing and interrogation reports sufficiently to satisfy myself that th...
by Vic Dale
Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:14 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: War Diaries for Bismarck and Prinz Eugen
Replies: 16
Views: 3798

War Diaries for Bismarck and Prinz Eugen

There seems to be some confusion regarding stated times in the War Diaries (KTBs) for both Bismarck and Prinz Eugen. I believe this stems from the fact that Bismarck's KTB is a reconstruction and Prinz Eugen's (PG) is not the original document. The original document is held by the Bundesarchiv/Milit...
by Vic Dale
Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:56 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.
Replies: 91
Views: 16566

Re: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.

A great many questions have been raised and I will try to deal with them as I go. If I miss anything perhaps someone will remind me. According to the ship's drawings available to me, the shell which hit the port side below the armour belt struck a diesel tank, so there will have been no loss of furn...
by Vic Dale
Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:40 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

Since my timings are nearly all taken from the Survivor's diaries it makes sense to use them when calculating speeds and distances steamed after contact was lost. It may well be that the War Diaries(KTBS) were reconstructed to suit Group West's times, and there is a possibility that the 0720 signal ...
by Vic Dale
Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:20 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

You guys here really amaze me. I would never for a second have thought you would not know that ship's clocks had been set back one hour in Bismarck. So you want further proof? Here is the evidence from the Interrogation Report regarding contact between Suffolk and Norfolk and Lutjens' squadron; >>>>...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:23 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.
Replies: 91
Views: 16566

Re: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.

At the risk of waxing lyrical, I would have to pick up my baton and conduct the questioner to the reason for the original intention to make for St Nazaire. The ship was damaged and trimmed by the bow so that it was digging in at speed and she was listing 9 degrees to port. Through the night Lutjens ...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:39 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

It all looks very confusing, but clearly these documents have been prepared for the wash-up at Group West and are not the original track-charts as used in the ship. I believe the Fleet Chief of Cruisers bollocked the officers of PG rigid for their lack of effort in producing these charts and told th...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:48 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.
Replies: 91
Views: 16566

Re: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.

No fuel was contaminated in the bow. The bow was flooded in the compartments above the trim tanks and structural damage was limited to the compartment through which the shell passed. Once the water was pumped out of the flooded compartment, the control valves for the trim tanks were accessible and t...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:44 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

The reconstructed record has obviously been adjusted to suit Group West time. There is no other explanation. It is not the original document. The Baron did not alter the times to match British records for nothing. What other times could have been used? Why did they set the clocks back in Bismarck an...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:04 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Beauty & the Beast
Replies: 27
Views: 9304

Re: Beauty & the Beast

On the day, it would come down to how well each ship was fought. Any ship which takes a succession of heavy hits is going to suffer, regardless of the armour fit or the velocity of it's own guns. Very often it is near misses short which do the most telling damage, as they are the ones which may prod...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:52 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

When put against everything else it looks like an error, possibly in translation, or in recording, or in KTB preparation at Group west. Remember it is a reconstructed war diary and not the real thing. I believe the KTB was prepared from a host of scraps of information, so that could mean anything. I...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:34 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

Bismarck's War Diary (KTB) went down with the ship. The KTB which we work from today was reconstructed by Group West, which was using Central European Time (CET). When preparing documents at Group West there would be no value in adjusting times back to ship's clocks in Bismarck. So it is all going t...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:11 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.
Replies: 91
Views: 16566

Re: Bismark´s endurance, fuel bunker and fuel burn.

Thanks to Thorsten for the additional information. From what is written here I am about 100m³ out. If we use 7700m³ of useable fuel as the sailing load at Gotenhafen, and a burn rate which consumed 2610m³ by 0000 on the morning of the 24th, we are left with 5100m³. Assume 27knots for 17 hours for th...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:30 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Lutjens' Intentions
Replies: 138
Views: 17683

Re: Lutjens' Intentions

In his book the Baron makes it abundantly clear that the ships clocks in Bismarck were set one hour behind those in the British ships at 1300 on the 23rd. Bismarck's Clocks.jpg He chose to synchronize all times given in his book, with those in the British ships, which were set to Double British Summ...
by Vic Dale
Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:46 am
Forum: Off Topic
Topic: Argentina's latest claim on the Falklands
Replies: 31
Views: 17455

Re: Argentina's latest claim on the Falklands

Every time a politician gets themselves into a scrape they find some long lost cause to campaign for. In 1982, General Galtieri the military dictator of Argentina was facing a massive general strike and was about to be ejected from power, so he started banging the Falklands/Malvinas drum and many of...