Search found 17 matches

by Nlneff
Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:28 pm
Forum: Naval History (1922-1945)
Topic: American battleship armor overrated?
Replies: 17
Views: 9402

Re: American battleship armor overrated?

I would add, based on FACEHARD 5.8, that if Mr Jurens is correct that the azimuthal obliquity was about 35 or 40 degrees no penetration would be expected even at point blank range by a 14in IJN AP round on a 17.3in Barbette (Or a HC round of course), although the angle of roll of the ship adds a bit...
by Nlneff
Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:59 pm
Forum: Naval History (1922-1945)
Topic: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults
Replies: 60
Views: 10611

Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Of the 10 ships (1 Light cruiser, CL Primauguet and 9 destroyers) listed in the Navweaps order of battle, only DD L'Alcyon, DD Tempete, and DD Simoun surivived. In terms of near suicidal courage, the charge of the French fleet at Torch ranks with Samar, IMHO.
by Nlneff
Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:09 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento
Replies: 63
Views: 15369

Re: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento

At ~25,500yds VV's turret face becomes vulnerable to low target angle, 14/45 hits. How did you derive that? Assuming a 0 degree target angle...At 26,000 yards the angle of fall for the RN 14in gun would be 25.1 degrees, final obliquity on the turret face plate is 4.9 degrees, (Assuming 30 degree sl...
by Nlneff
Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:47 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento
Replies: 63
Views: 15369

Re: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento

When did Nathan Okun suggest the Littorio Belt specifically wouldn't work? (the caliber gap you keep mentioning doesn't count since there is additional material in the gap.) I've never read anything from Okun talking about the Littorio belt other then it worked perfectly. There are basically two typ...
by Nlneff
Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:51 am
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento
Replies: 63
Views: 15369

Re: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento

The belt array was tested in full scale by the Italians, it decaped 15in shells (G&D page 420) and generally stopped shells at the no hole limit at 16,000 meters (17,497 yards), although sometimes partial or ineffective penetration would occur, presumably it worked because of the filler or lamin...
by Nlneff
Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:01 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento
Replies: 63
Views: 15369

Re: Rodney + POW v Littorio and Victorio Vento

If we assume a 20 degree target angle and 95% velocity, the final obliquity on KGV's machinery belt will be 23.15 degrees at 20,000 yards. A 13.73 CA belt with .75in D backing will be penetrated in full intact bursting condition by the Victorio's gun (final velocity 1814, 95% of normal) at 20000 yar...
by Nlneff
Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:34 am
Forum: Naval History (1922-1945)
Topic: Battleship Top Ten
Replies: 626
Views: 128739

You can just email D.M. Sullivan at the link Tiornu provided and order the magazines. If you have paypal you can pay with that and get the magazines a little sooner.
by Nlneff
Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:30 am
Forum: Naval Technology
Topic: Distance to Horizon
Replies: 8
Views: 4343

Failing that, you can request it from the US National Archives. Those reports get addictive, and expensive. (some are remarkably insightful, even philosophical at points. I have one from Leyte that notes the IJN commander had to know the situation he was sailing into was certain death since his reco...
by Nlneff
Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:15 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Richelieu vs. South Dakota
Replies: 78
Views: 23532

In a pure BB vs BB engagement, South Dakota has the edge, her 16in guns make up the edge in protection that Richelieu has. However, in a general sense, Richelieu has operational advantages (better speed) and a better (trully remakable really) TDS amidships. These arent that relevant in a BB duel, bu...
by Nlneff
Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:08 am
Forum: Naval Technology
Topic: Iowa Class real performance
Replies: 67
Views: 34349

Being picky, but "At 16000 yards (not meters) with a new liner the 38cm just fails to penetrate, with the limit velocity being 1897 fps, and the shell hitting at 1889 fps" by no stretch of the imagination indicates that penetration is "improbable", it implies that it's very prob...
by Nlneff
Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:56 am
Forum: Naval Technology
Topic: Iowa Class real performance
Replies: 67
Views: 34349

Well, tweaking my M79APCLC calulations, I had thought the faceplate was 17in on 2in, equivilant to about 18.4-18.5, revising things to 18.75 for a 2.5in backing plate, doesnt change much. At 16000 yards (not meters) with a new liner the 38cm just fails to penetrate, with the limit velocity being 189...
by Nlneff
Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:18 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: Bismarck a Baden Class?
Replies: 35
Views: 15354

A good point of comparision would be the original South Dakota design compared to the Montana design. The superficial resemblance is uncanny, basically because they both have 12 16in/50 guns in 4 triple turrets, split fore and aft (Like Baden and Bismarck main batteries being similar). But obviously...
by Nlneff
Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:45 pm
Forum: Naval Technology
Topic: Iowa Class real performance
Replies: 67
Views: 34349

Is that the effective limit, naval limit...? I believe the angle of the faceplate is closer to 35deg, if that matters. Thats the Navy Ballistic Limit, according to M79APCLC. Changing the faceplate angle to 35 degrees would improve things, but not enough to note with the 2000 yard differences given ...
by Nlneff
Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:39 am
Forum: Naval Technology
Topic: Iowa Class real performance
Replies: 67
Views: 34349

"I'd be interested in hearing about this penetration curve for the 38cm shell against American armor. Is it available somewhere? All I can say is using Nathan Okun's M79APCLC (which is the relevant calculator, since its STS/Class B plate), given a 30 degree slope to the turret front plate, and...
by Nlneff
Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:28 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: German and Italian fleet together
Replies: 4
Views: 2180

Re: German and Italian fleet together

The logistical effort necessary for Italian ships to operate in oceanic waters would be prohibitive. I don't think the Italians had any experience in underway replenishment. Considering how short of oil the Italian fleet was, I suspect that would be irrelevant, they would have nothing to replenish ...