Naval History Forums

Hello Marcelo,
I agree with what you say.
Just I wonder whether we are not underestimating de-capping effect on overall horizontal protection evaluation. It would be great to have an allied evaluation of Prinz Eugen two decks being equivalent to a certain thickness in one layer.

hans

Hello Mr. Wahl, thanks for this information, from which we can probably say that also slopes were 30 mm thick. I feel this protection was quite weak, even keeping into account de-capping effect of weather deck, and I wonder how KM could have built an almost 20,000 t ship (full load) in case of Prinz...

Hello, I'm currently looking at the Admiral Hipper class (and Prinz Eugen specifically) armor scheme. While all sources give a belt of 80 mm steel, for the main armor deck over machinery there are two different versions: 1) Breyer and Whitley say that MAD was uniformly only 30 mm thick (a quite asto...

Dunmunro wrote: "True, but not the lower portion of the armoured bulkhead."

True, but this portion, at turret frames where TDS was narrow, was in contact with no "vital", with no "large" room to be potentially flooded.

hans

Fraserian2 wrote: "the considerable narrowing of the TPS towards the citadel's ends is definetely an aspect not to neglect" This aspect was not neglected by Bismarck designers. At turrets ordinates, where TDS is narrowing more, vitals (magazines and shell rooms) were not in contact with t...

Paul Mercer wrote: "...Bismarck who as we know only lasted for one outing before being sunk and Tirpitz whose only claim to fame was bombarding a wireless/weather station..." Hello, respectfully, I completely disagree with this evaluation: Bismarck, in her only "outing", confron...

Hello Mr. Fraserian, I agree with your analysis, especially with last sentence: we should never forget that pumping capacity of Bismarcks class (and in general German warships) was huge compared to other battleships. Leakages through bulkhead were possibly considered "manageable" by pumps....

Hello Mr. Dunmunro, I suspect the same averaged value, taken as max speed. At 09:09 speed was still 28 knots, only at 09:32 speed was reduced, surely to allow emergency repairs but mainly because there was no need anymore to run and waste fuel (this was main problem after battle, not damages). As in...

Hello Mr.Dunmunro, while I agree with all you have said above, I still don't see why 28 knots for Bismarck should be different from 26 for PoW. IMHO both ships were slightly reduced in speed as result of battle and Bismarck was still faster, according to what was declared by their flag/commanding of...

Mr. RF wrote: "Trying to despatch POW could have taken hours" I agree, and that's why Lütjens correctly decided not to do it. However, had he decided to go for kill, I don't see many chances for PoW in a long stern chase, as turret Y had no gun (later only 2 guns) in action and Bismarck w...

Mr. Dunmunro wrote: "Leach was probably giving maximum sustained (for hours at a time) speeds." "Probably" same did Lütjens for Bismarck's 28 knots (see below). Mr. Dunmunro reported: "The decision of Admiral Lütjens to head for St. Nazaire and abort the mission for Bismarc...

Hello Mr. Dunmunro, thanks for this very interesting info: apparently Captain J.C. Leach understated his ship capabilities, signalling to CS1 quite differently (at around 7:00, when his ship was actually making 28.5 knots instead) a max speed of 27 knots. CS1 took it as valid and re-transmitted it (...

Hello Mr. Dunmunro, thanks for this precise detail. Brennecke, after having evaluated both accounts, concluded he found no reason for dismissing them and also listed all possible reasons for Lütjens to reject Lindemann request: ammunition and fuel consumption, danger of other British units in proxim...

P.S. First hand eyewitness account about the discussion comes from helmsman Heinz Staats who was in the armored command centre and heard a conversation between Oels (I.O.) and an un-named officer from Lütjens staff about this episode. Also another un-named officer accounted about the "thick&quo...

Mr. Dunmunro wrote: "The source for an argument about continuing the engagement seems to have come from Baron Müllenheim-Rechberg but no first hand eyewitness accounts have been uncovered" First account came from Jochen Brennecke (I have 1970 and 2003 editions of his book, but first editi...